Zero Data Swap #3: Maker Meet

Experiments, works-in-progress & under construction, mundane or extraordinary.

Rosano and cblgh and invite you to a show-and-tell. Come and share what projects you’re working on: experiments, works-in-progress & under construction, mundane or extraordinary—anything goes, as long as it’s yours~

See also the previous swap.


Over a dozen people attended or presented a wide range of software and hardware projects. We took collaborative notes with HackMD, tracked seven-minute timers with DuckDuckGo, and determined the order of presentations via Python's Random.shuffle().

hoody: 'moderator'

Running collaborative tools on low-power devices, indestructible distributed 4chan dark-net market place, quick to disappear, using tech from Aljoscha Meyer.

cinnamon: Earthstar

  • inspired by trying to fix scuttlebut ui/ux issues that run deep
    • device-oriented over people-oriented, can't use same identity on different devices
    • processing the entire backlog is network/storage/cpu intense, slow
    • immutability is not good for a social network. what's safe to say today might not be safe tomorrow, need to be able to delete stuff
    • need to be able to download a subset of data related to stuff you care about
  • earthstar fixes all of the above
    • people-oriented identity, can log in from multiple devices
    • can download a subset of data as needed
    • everything is mutable and can be deleted by author
    • also can have mutable docs that anyone can edit
    • designed for small groups, ~100 people, separated into "workspaces". not a big single global network.
    • trying to use simple boring technology as much as possible
    • very detailed specification:
  • simple CRDT last writer wins merge strategy. Better CRDTs exist but are complicated, we decided to use the simplest one
  • every peer has a copy of the data they care about. pubs exist to get around firewalls; they are just peers in the cloud.
  • goal: pubs are easy to run by community members, keep governance as local as possible, avoid moderations external to local community
  • pubs are easy to run, push buttons on glitch, no need to use a command line, pub owner has no power, can only turn it off, can have multiple pubs run by different people for redundancy
  • zero data event with rosano at some later point?
  • cinnamon stepping down for health reasons, looking for contributors

mix: ssb-crut

Pre-recorded presentation.


Wants to track carbon via Zero Data apps and integrate with Home Assistant.

mauve: hypergodot

P2P for godot game engine.

rosano: automated testing via github actions

gwil: letterbox

cblgh: lieu

a community search engine

nanomonkey: recipe manager

UI works with both keyboard and mouse


13:36 cblgh says: order ['hoody', 'juha', 'mauve', 'fellow jitsi', 'cinn', 'mix', 'rosano', 'cblgh', 'gwil']
13:39 Mauve says:
13:40 cblgh says: <-- amatecha
13:42 cinnamon says:
13:42 cinnamon says: p.s. I use they/them pronouns
13:44 cblgh says: (updated order: ['hoody', 'juha', 'mauve', 'fellow jitsi', 'cinn', 'mix', 'rosano', 'cblgh', 'gwil', 'geoffrey', 'interfect'])
13:44 cblgh says: o ya he/him/they i guess 😃
13:44 rosano says: he/they
13:46 Juha Autero says: he/they also
13:48 rosano says:
13:49 cblgh says:
13:49 cblgh says:
13:55 cblgh says: o/ nanomonkey 😃
13:56 gwil says: fully sick
14:07 cblgh says:
14:07 cblgh says:
14:07 cblgh says:
14:09 nanomonkey says: So, I built the first two boards for the disaster radio project. I have some experience with building Lora antannas in Kicad if you need any help.
14:10 interfect says: Thanks!
14:12 cblgh says:
14:12 cblgh says: (pardon the orange halloween theme x)
14:16 hoody says: earthstar is dope
14:17 cblgh says:
14:21 cinnamon says:
14:21 cinnamon says:
14:21 cblgh says:
14:21 cblgh says:
14:22 nanomonkey says: Any suggestions on how to get mics working? I've tried all the options available through jitsi that I can find.
14:23 cblgh says: hm not sure 😕 replug it probably, or try chrome and see if that does it?
14:23 gwil says: which browser are you on? safari always gives me trouble
14:23 rosano says: @nanomonkey i think you probably did it right, maybe try a different browser?
14:23 nanomonkey says: firefox
14:23 rosano says: yea safari doesn't work for me
14:23 nanomonkey says: on llnux
14:24 Mauve says: I'm on Firefox on Linux and I think my mic works FWIW.
14:24 Mauve says: I'm guessing your mic gain is up and your system is seeing stuff when you try to test it outside the browser?
14:25 cblgh says: once i had to click on the lil tab above the mic and pic another microphone, cause it was picking up a different one
14:25 cblgh says: (guess you already tried that tho!)
14:25 cblgh says: hey cryptix 😃
14:25 cblgh says: we're streaming mix (not sure if you can see it)
14:26 cryptix says: hey ya'll!
14:26 cryptix says: yea i can. sorry for being late.. i somehow messed up writing down the wrong time
14:26 cblgh says: nw 😃
14:26 rosano says: timezones are complicated… but thanks for being here, be welcome 😃
14:27 Juha Autero says: nanomankey: Does addressbar show that you have granted extra permissions on website?
14:27 cblgh says: boost ON
14:27 amatecha says: oh wow I figured out how to set name and use chat. woot
14:28 cblgh says: (mix gave me permission to 1.25x it once it got close to the 7 min work fwiw 😃
14:28 rosano says: dj alex
14:31 cblgh says: 💿😎
14:31 cblgh says:
14:31 cblgh says: if anyone wants to rewatch it it's here:
14:31 cblgh says: ['hoody', 'juha', 'mauve', 'fellow jitsi', 'cinn', 'mix', 'rosano', 'cblgh', 'gwil', 'geoffrey', 'interfect', 'nanomonkey', 'cryptix']
14:35 hoody says: getting super flaky net here at y homeboys house
14:35 hoody says: heading back to home and trying again
14:36 Mauve says: lol, I can't share screen from Agregore yet since I haven't implemented the UI for it. 😂
14:36 rosano says: #browsergoals
14:41 cblgh says: i guess this
14:41 :^)
14:41 rosano says:
14:42 Mauve says: Just confirming with the person I'm meeting though
14:44 cblgh says:
14:44 cblgh says:
14:45 nanomonkey says: Juha, there is a couple of libraries in Python for opening and writing to excel files. This might help you out.
14:45 nanomonkey says: Pandas can do it directly and has lots of support.
14:46 cblgh says: (also known as dat previously : )
14:46 cblgh says:
14:46 amatecha says: oohhh (didn’t know dat was “rebranded”!)
14:47 Juha Autero says: I'm experienced Python programmer. What I'm trying to learn is javascript frameworks.
14:47 rosano says: "as little as possible to make stuff just work" all the things
14:50 cblgh says: big brain energy
14:51 Mauve says:
14:51 Mauve says:
15:00 cblgh says:
15:00 cblgh says:
15:00 cblgh says:
15:02 cblgh says:
15:04 Mauve says: K, gotta go. TY folks!
15:06 cblgh says: gwil u can go ahead of me if you want 😃
15:06 gwil says: I'll take you up on that
15:09 gwil says:
15:13 cblgh says: (i love the pocket terminology that gwil is putting into action here)
15:13 cblgh says: if u remember (from cinn): to participate u gotta make an identity, and then you click on "join plaza" or whatever at the bottom!
15:14 rosano says: local-first!
15:16 cblgh says: 👏👏👏
15:16 rosano says: ❤️
15:18 hoody says: back on track. hallo cryptix
15:19 cblgh says: wb!
15:20 gwil says: <-- earthstar discord
15:20 cblgh says: remaining potential presentations [ 'cblgh', 'nanomonkey', 'cryptix']
15:20 gwil says: cinnamon's docS are NUTS
15:22 rosano says:
15:23 Juha Autero says: Accidentally closed tab.
15:26 rosano says: ooooh lala
15:26 hoody says: any preferred thing to do to make your site lieu friendly?
15:27 gwil says: yeah, is there a way for it to handle browser-rendered apps / pipe data in?
15:28 cblgh says: p:first-of-type
15:28 gwil says: A whole new industry of dark web SEO
15:29 hoody says: heh heh
15:29 hoody says: how about a button you could display
15:29 hoody says: oldskool, part of webring / use lieu here
15:30 cblgh says: oh ya, like ready made?
15:32 hoody says: yup, to help people find this thing
15:32 hoody says: neocities friendly stuff, simple
15:32 hoody says:
15:32 hoody says: might be handy soehow
15:32 hoody says: somehow
15:32 gwil says: thanks everyone, I've got to run!
15:33 hoody says: cheers gwil
15:33 cblgh says: am i the only one that can't see it?
15:33 cryptix says: nope
15:33 amatecha says: i see nothing lol
15:33 Juha Autero says: me neither
15:34 cblgh says: now we're good
15:34 Juha Autero says: now i can see
15:45 cblgh says: varasanos og
15:45 cblgh says:
15:45 cblgh says: this guy is so serious, check out his site to learn everything about making pizza
15:45 cblgh says: related: just found out about this markup language for recipes today
15:45 cblgh says: high yield recipe
15:45 cblgh says:
15:45 cblgh says:
15:45 cblgh says:
15:45 cblgh says: (bob's fedi)
15:45 cblgh says:
15:47 hoody says: it's snowing here, got some cocoa and cryptix explaining stuff on the headphones, this is cool
15:49 cblgh says: ohh wow
15:49 cblgh says: just arctic circle things
15:49 cblgh says:
15:49 cblgh says:
15:52 hoody says: ssbCRUD
15:52 hoody says: i think many people are interested in running ssb as distributed key-val store
15:52 cryptix says: +1
15:54 nanomonkey says: What ssb client are folks using these days?
15:54 cblgh says: still patchwork x)
15:54 hoody says: is there a zero data manifesto somewhere?
15:54 hoody says: patchwork
15:55 rosano says: @hoody some principles at
15:55 hoody says: cheers rosano
15:57 amatecha says: \o/
15:59 cryptix says: also nano, feel free to mention me with these questions
15:59 nanomonkey says: will do
15:59 cryptix says: also sure cel would be down to answer - also req criquets: like gwil said, somethomes these threads just vanish
15:59 rosano says:
15:59 rosano says:
16:00 hoody says: super cool, thanks for doing this
16:00 hoody says: cu!

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